An Interview with Max Tai and Alaedine Belhouari: Here, I Found My Passion for Investment
My Job, My Passion!
Note: This interview was first published in Mandarin in February 2022. The details of Max’s and Alaedine’s work may have changed since then. However, their passion and advice is timeless and we reproduce the interview in English here for everyone’s learning.
We cordially invite Max Tai (Class of 2020) and Alaedine Belhouari (Class of 2021) from Generation Z Investment Club (Z Club) to share with us how they followed their passion for investment and ultimately found investment-related job opportunities. Since graduating from Zhejiang University, Max has established his own investment partnership company. Meanwhile, Alaedine successfully persuaded Soo Chuen Tan, the founder of Discerene Group, an asset management company located in Stanford, Connecticut, US, to hire him as an intern. This is the first time Discerene has made an exception to hire an intern. This internship eventually led to him successfully obtaining a full-time opportunity at Discerene. The above two examples are only a glimpse of how Z Club helps members achieve their dreams. The interview is as follows:
Shinya:
Alaedine, congratulations on graduating from Z Club! I still remember our first meeting in Shanghai about 2 years ago. Now, you have also learned a lot. At that time, you did not know the difference between asset management business and investment banking business. Now, you are about to graduate from Columbia University and join Discerene Group. Can you tell us about this company first?
Alaedine:
First of all, thank you for the opportunity to share my experience with everyone. Discerene is a hedge fund company headquartered in Stamford, Connecticut. We adopt an investment strategy based on Value Investment and market contrarian principles. We usually buy good companies with high barriers at low prices. In summary, we look at global companies, wait for market dislocation, and firmly buy. We are a small team of 8 people led by Mr. Soo Chuen Tan. I think this is the most diverse, exciting, and intelligent team I have ever participated in.
Shinya:
Yes, Soo Chuen and I are friends who have known each other for many years. I have always been deeply impressed by his visionary outlook and contrarian mindset. I think this is also one of the reasons why he stands out from many investment managers. I remember that after your team won second place in the 2020 Generation Z Investment Cup, you contacted Leonie Foong from Overlook, which indirectly helped you get the Discerene internship opportunity. We know that the company has never hired interns or recent graduates before. Can you tell me how you did it?
Alaedine:
I have to thank you for your advice. What you said about "creating job opportunities for oneself" benefited me a lot. I remember at the competition, we recommended Arista Networks. The enthusiastic Leonie spent a lot of energy and time providing us with a lot of constructive feedback. During the chat with her, we talked about her friend - Soo Chuen. Soo Chuen left a deep impression on me. Leonie noticed my thoughts and agreed to help me forward my resume and stock return performance to him. After that, I started to contact Soo Chuen. Actually, my goal was not to get an internship opportunity at Discerene, but during the chat, I gradually realized that I was very eager to study and work with him. He is a very patient person. For example, he always fulfills my wish to be assigned a job every time. He also provided many valuable opinions on my resume. Finally, I boldly proposed the idea of working at his company, and he agreed!
Shinya:
Did he agree immediately?
Alaedine:
No, I first had to do a very interesting case study to convince him. But for him, it was definitely easier than other people they recruited. Overall, it was still a challenging and interesting interview for me.
Shinya:
Thank you very much for sharing! For many young investors, this is indeed a dream job
Alaedine:
Yes, I couldn't agree more.
Shinya:
Hello Max, thank you for taking the time to communicate with us today. We have known each other for 4 years, from our "Invest in Your Life! Tokyo Trip", to you becoming a member of Z Club, to serving as a consultant for Z Club. During this period, you have also provided many valuable guidance to the club's members. As the Covid-19 epidemic spreads globally, you, who just graduated from Zhejiang University, are regretting the decline in job opportunities caused by the national lockdown policy. Then, in 2021, you decided to devote yourself wholeheartedly to starting Rainforest Partnership. I still think your life journey is very special. Your experience has also inspired many young people. Many of the Malaysian members in our club joined because of you. Can you tell me how you came to establish your own company - Rainforest Partnership?
Max:
Thank you. I started investing when I was 13 years old. At that time, I worked in a relative's company and gradually began to understand the operations of the company. Later, I found that they also invested in stocks, but the returns were a bit sad. With growing curiosity about investment, I searched for "the best investor in the world" and the two words "Warren Buffett" appeared in front of me. Then, I collected all the information and books related to him and read them. For me at that time, these books were mysterious. To solve this problem, I self-studied business and accounting knowledge. Along the way, I found that I really liked investing. The strong thirst for knowledge required for investment, the patience to wait for time to prove the fundamental analysis of the business, and other traits are different from those required by other professions. Some people cannot accept this working style, but I think I am very suitable for it.
In my freshman year, I nervously called the vice president of an investment bank and told him that I was willing to provide them with free labor. In my sophomore year, he introduced me to the investment bank where I interned for the second year. In my junior year, I interned at The Boston Consulting Group. In my senior year, I worked at a US hedge fund located in China. When I graduated, the coronavirus pandemic broke out, and I was unable to return to China to complete my last semester. The pandemic made the probability of interviewing and getting a job opportunity slim. At this time, someone who had interned at an investment bank in his freshman year contacted me. We had some interaction, and I recommended stocks to him, which later brought him rich returns. He offered me the opportunity to manage his family's funds. Before accepting, I thought for two months and felt that as a young person, I should be brave enough to take risks. In the end, I agreed. We had the fund's establishment work ready by March 2021. At that time, the market was in a difficult period, and valuations were generally too high. I also tried my best to find opportunities globally to protect and grow the family’s capital.
Shinya:
Most college students find jobs through traditional channels. For example, through school recruitment activities, job postings on LinkedIn, etc. Compared to this, your job search methods are different. Would you recommend this method to others? What is your suggestion?
Alaedine:
It depends on each person's goals. If the goal is to have a good income or you are still uncertain, then choosing a large company is undoubtedly a good choice. If the goal is to improve your investment skills and achieve long-term returns, then find a job that matches your investment style, an intellectually curious environment, and a place that you are willing to devote your time and energy to.
Max:
I completely agree with Alaedine's point of view. Everyone has their own preferred work mode. I have many friends who choose to enter a career that suits their life goals. In college, I think the most important thing is to discover your own needs. You must find out what things make you willing to spend more time exploring. Trust me! Eventually, you will find what you want at some point. I believe everyone has their path. If you see an opportunity that will take you to your destination, please seize it without hesitation! There is no fully prepared state in the world. If the opportunity disappears, you will get nothing and learn nothing.
Shinya:
Do you have any advice for members of the Generation Z Investment Club?
Alaedine:
When you develop a strategy to accomplish something, it is important to grasp the core needs and understand what the other party needs. The other party often has constantly changing needs. For example, in the case of asset management companies, factors such as creativity, diverse perspectives, and backgrounds are all very important. So, to show that you can bring high value to them, you need to do a lot of research and write down your thought process. I believe this can increase people's willingness to spend time with you.
Max:
Providing value is important, everyone wants to benefit. I think a proactive personality is important, and at the same time, I think the internet makes it easier for people to connect. These two concepts also helped me get to know Shinya.
Shinya:
Max, what is your corporate vision for your start-up company?
Max:
Our long-term vision is to earn sustainable profits for my partners. I found that running an investment business is indeed different from investing. I must learn to balance my investment portfolio and have a flexible mindset to make more rational and sustainable decisions. In the past year, my ideas have changed greatly, and I am also adjusting my underlying logical framework. The whole process was indeed difficult, but I learned a lot. For example, I have learnt how to invest more responsibly.
Shinya:
Alaedine, you have interned at an investment bank, why didn't you choose investment banking as your career direction?
Alaedine:
My first finance internship was at a boutique investment bank located in Shanghai that focused on US mergers and acquisitions. In the first one or two weeks, I found it quite interesting. It was similar to sales, where you needed to create a lot of powerpoint decks and learn how to attract others to buy products, but I felt that this job lacked deep business thinking. In fact, I only needed to mechanically focus on each part of the transaction to complete the task. I felt that I did not spend enough time truly understanding the world and making a valuable impact on society. In the end, I found that I did not like this job. On the contrary, in the investment process, I was exposed to a large amount of new information every day, which helped me think more deeply.
Shinya:
Some viewers asked me why I founded Z Club, so let me answer!
Shinya:
Until now, I still don't have an exact answer. I think the club allows members to meet many friends. For example, although I am almost twenty years older than Alaedine and Max, we have a very good conversation about investment topics. Our relationship is both friend and foe. As they become better, I also have a strong desire to become better, and I think this relationship allows us to help each other become better at the same time. I think Tiffany, the co-founder of the club, feels the same way. We have gained a lot of joy and meaning from the growth process of our members.
Shinya:
What is your career goal, Alaedine?
Alaedine:
I think the goal of most investment industry practitioners is to establish their own asset management companies, and I am no exception. I think this idea naturally arises when you become an analyst.
Shinya:
Max, given that time is a limited resource, how would you choose the people you prioritize helping?
Max:
Mainly based on three principles. First, I will help influential people. For example, Shinya. When he planned to start the Z Club, I was very willing to help him. Then, I will help people who respect me. If someone who is upset about a major life decision comes to me for advice, I will be very happy to help them. I think it is because they respect and value my opinion that they come to me. Then, if I have time and spare energy, I will help others. In the past, I have worked in many small businesses. I have also found that many problems arise in the process of running a business. I think I am naturally fond of solving problems. If someone shares a very challenging problem with me, I will be very happy to help him.
Shinya:
Max, you are only in your twenties now. May I ask what "long-term" means to you?
Max:
Two years ago, I discovered that one of my strengths was my ability to withstand fluctuations. In the past decade, I have tried many investment strategies, such as investing in cyclical stocks, value stocks, and stocks with excellent management... Along the way, I made many big and small mistakes. Nevertheless, I also found many high-quality stocks. I used the investment framework of famous investors to search for them. So far, the performance of these stocks is still better than cyclical stocks. I remember investing in a semiconductor equipment company at that time, which had strong cyclicality. After 3 or 4 years, I decided to sell the stock of that company because the thought of holding it couldn't put me to sleep.
I have been trying to find companies that have not been proven, are about to succeed, or have been verified but are trading at undervalued or fair prices. I believe these companies can bring us high compound interest. For me, visionary thinking is the best investment thinking, and time can verify the feasibility of a company's business. I think the idea of "buy and hold" needs to be added with "verification" at the end to become "buy, hold and verify". Investors need to judge which trends will cause temporary effects and which will cause fundamental changes.
Tiffany:
Max, with your investment skills and mindset at that time, do you think you are ready to start a business?
Max:
I don't think there is a truly ready state in the world. I am grateful to investors who are willing to bet on my learning ability and give me the opportunity to manage their assets. I am grateful to my mentor at the hedge fund who taught me to approach learning with a growth mindset. He purchased SEA Limited at a price of USD 10 per share. In addition, I am also very grateful to my investors. Although sometimes opinions may differ, I have gained a better understanding of the way businessmen think.
Undeniably, the decision to start a business has brought me tremendous psychological pressure. We know that investing is a long-term game, but investors insist on providing you with funds every month and trust that you will achieve something. I think the best way to manage a company is to ensure that you and investors have sufficient communication to maintain mutual trust. Since the market is often unpredictable, fund managers need to have the ability to learn and adapt quickly. I think having a sense of responsibility and improving credibility is more important than thinking about how to minimize losses. As I mentioned before, you need to learn to seize sudden opportunities to gain the trust of investors.
Tiffany:
As we all know, the Generation Z Investment Club provides real money to students to manage. Alaedine, as the portfolio manager of the Atlas team, Can you talk about your experience? How did this experience help you find a job?
Alaedine:
In terms of direct impact, this experience has made my resume stand out because it proves that I am capable of managing a fund. In terms of indirect impact, as a portfolio manager, if the team you manage lacks a sense of participation, the performance of your team's investment portfolio will fully reveal this problem. To avoid this problem, you need to continuously do deeper thinking and learn to manage teams. In the long run, this can help you perform well in future jobs.
Finally, we thank Max and Alaedine for their frank and sincere sharing. In addition, we also thank Shinya for her excellent hosting! We hope this interview can bring some inspiration to everyone. Thank you!